View Full Transcript
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to Spill the Tea Unfiltered. Hey, guys. Hey. And we're back once again with Suzanne Fortnum, licensed professional counselor. How are you doing, Suzanne?
Good. Good. So I know that you have a disclaimer, so why don't you start with that?
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Sure.
So just a reminder for everyone listening that this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and it is not a substitute for therapy, medical advice, or legal counsel. Listening to this podcast is not estab a therapeutic relationship. And if you are in need of support, please seek a licensed professional counselor in your area for yourself.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Perfect.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: All right, so I am so excited about today's episode. We talked about doing something a little bit different.
We actually want to look at two stories that have been shared by women on this podcast podcast. Side by side. Very different stories on the surface, but what we're going to do is dissect them and talk about the patterns underneath them.
So one of the things I see over and over again, both in my work and in these conversations, is that women will hear someone else's story and immediately compare.
And comparison is so dangerous.
We go into a narrative of, well, my situation wasn't that bad.
That's abuse. But my situation was just complicated.
At least he didn't do this.
At least it didn't escalate to physical violence.
And the problem with that is that's what keeps women disconnected from their own experience.
So today we are going to put two stories side by side. One involving very overt escalating domestic violence, and the other involving long term attachment, emotional disconnection, and repeated infidelity, and talk about what they actually have in common. Because Harm doesn't always look the same. And that's really the message that I and Lauren and Amber want to drive home for you today.
Sometimes harm screams, sometimes it slowly relight, rewrites your reality. But both matter.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Absolutely.
And to frame the two stories as a. As a brief reference, the first story that we're going to look at was the story from a couple weeks ago titled Abuse is Not Always Visible. It was the one where he had a lot of guns and was constantly threatening her life and the dog's lives and went to a birthday party with guns and made scenes. He goes to the grocery store with these guns. He goes to the gas station with these guns. Like her, she constantly felt like she. Her life was in danger, like he was going to kill her. Um, and it took her a while to be able to get away and to get the strength to get away from that, because I'm sure that was very scary.
Um, so that will be one of the stories that we look at. And the other story was called Collateral Damage and that was one where she was in a long term relationship and he ended up having an affair with a co worker and she was married to him, but she, he had the affair and he lied and gaslit her and said he would change and of course he didn't change and, but they had been together a very, very long time and I think she lost herself in that relationship and, and through the years and thankfully she also was able to get away from that relationship. So those are the two stories we're going to compare. If you know, you've listened to the podcast, you've heard both of those stories. If you haven't, go back and listen to Abuse is Not Always Visible and Collateral Damage. So you'll know which two stories we're talking about.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Thank you for providing that overview.
I'm going to just provide a brief framing from like a clinical perspective. And then what we've actually done today is Lauren and Amber have had me evaluate for core themes the connect between both stuff stories. So we're going to go through each of those core themes and there are seven, if you can believe it, for stories that are so different. And I think that it's really important to acknowledge how many similarities they are because of those narratives we tell ourselves. Like mine wasn't that bad, or at least he didn't.
Because those stories that we tell ourselves shut down connection and sharing and healing.
The first story is the one of escalating abuse, fear, intimidation, weapons, volatility, isolation.
A woman living in an environment where her safety is concerned, consistently threatened, and over time her world becomes smaller, quieter, and more controlled.
The second story looks very different. It's a long relationship, history, attachment, shared life, and then over time, grief, emotional distance, behavioral shifts, disconnection, followed by infidelity, repair attempt, and ultimately repeated betrayal. One is very loud, one is very quiet, but both leave each woman trying to understand how she lost herself.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Yep. Which is a very core underlying theme for every story we've told.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Yes, it is.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: So tell us about like, core theme one. Like, what's the first thing you found in this when you read him?
[00:06:14] Speaker B: The first thing I found, and this is so common in any kind of abusive relationship, emotional, financial, sexual, physical, is that it doesn't start where it ends.
And that's one of the things that causes us to invalidate and minimize our own experiences. So one of the biggest patterns in both of these stories Is this.
Nothing starts at full volume. In the first story, the abuse escalates. The environment becomes more chaotic, more threatening, more unsafe.
But it doesn't happen all at once. It builds. In the second story, the betrayal also builds, but it's small shifts, subtle changes, moments that don't quite add up. And like so many women, her first instinct isn't to accuse. It's to question and overanalyze herself. So am I overreacting? Is he struggling? Do I just need to be more understanding? And this is where people often miss it, because they're looking at the end of the story and asking, well, why did she say, why wouldn't she just leave? But she didn't start there.
She adapted there. And that's a very different thing.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: It is. And I think that that's something people don't understand. People are just like, well, just leave. Like, it's easy to do that. And they don't realize that. Like, what is it with domestic violence? On average, it takes like seven times for them to actually leave the final time.
But even without domestic violence, there's just. You lose yourself in that person and you, like, become so attached. And so, like, what you believe is true love within that person, that you don't. You can't. You, like, it's really hard for you to process leaving. And so like you said, people are often just go from the beginning to the end and they're like, well, leave. And it's like, but you're not living it. You weren't living the entire situation and the entire relationship to know how hard it is to actually leave.
[00:08:30] Speaker C: But then, I mean, Suzanne has already also talked about the addiction side of it where it's triggering that addiction feeling too.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:08:38] Speaker C: And that makes it even harder to leave sometimes.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: Because you feel like you can't live without them.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Right.
And there's also the piece of, like, what is going on.
So, no, I like, very strongly believe nobody knows what's going on in anybody else's marriage or relationship. Relationship. Right. So what he might be putting out there outwardly is like, people think he is like an upstanding citizen, volunteer at church, you know, a high level professional, just the nicest man you're ever gonna meet.
And they're not seeing what is going on inside. And if there is something that friends and family see, it can be dismissed as a one off or like a bad period. And you might hear statements like, well, it seems like he's mellowed out now.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: That also invalidates and makes you question your experience. And so when we get to the end, like, why didn't she just leave? All the signs were there. Like, they were. But, like, there's so many other underlying factors that prevent that.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: We don't always see the signs because they happen slowly over time.
And we. It. We. We are blinded to them. Whether we choose to be blinded to them or whatever the case is, making excuses for it, but we are blinded to a lot of the signs until after the fact, looking back, and then we're like, oh, that was the. That was not good.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah, well. And the other person's behavior often runs away at us too. Right. It bears us down and it is hard to leave because we're tired and we're worn down.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: I can definitely say in my last relationship, a lot of the things that I should have confronted him about. I was tired and I just didn't. Like, I was like, not that I didn't care, but, like, I just didn't have the energy to invest into it.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: Because you get to the point where you're just like, whatever.
[00:10:53] Speaker C: I'm just like, yeah, like what? Like, didn't come home for the night. Okay, whatever.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: It gets, like, it starts. You start to excuse it because you're like, I'm too. I'm too tired to have this conversation.
[00:11:05] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't want to argue. I just want to go to work, do my job, and then go home and go to bed. Like, that's it.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: You become a shell of yourself, especially
[00:11:15] Speaker C: when depression kicks in too,
[00:11:19] Speaker B: and where this can become, like, even more damaging. And it's kind of a nice segue into the second core theme is self blame becomes the default. Right. Like, at the end of the relationship or even during the relationship, like, people look to like, okay, well, what are you doing? What is your role in it? And then why are you choosing to stay? So again, in both of these situations, both these women in very different circumstances do the same thing. They turn inwards. In the first story, she begins to believe that what she's being told about herself is true and accepted as her truth, that she's unlovable and that she's the problem. And she minimizes what's happening and even protects him at times.
And then in the second story, this woman over functions. She becomes more attentive, more forgiving, more invested in fixing the relationship.
Different behaviors, but same route. What can I do differently?
How do we work together to resolve the issue that we're having in our relationship?
What do I do differently?
And as women, we often take that on ourselves, and it's a heavy burden to carry.
This is something I want to name very clearly.
Women are often conditioned to manage relationships by managing themselves. So instead of asking, is this healthy? They asked, how do I make this work?
Self abandonment.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Yep. And that's. That's. I mean, we. We both have personally been through it. Obviously, these women have, too. And every woman we've had on here has blamed themselves at some point.
What. What did I do to push them away? What did I do to make him angry? What did I do to trigger this behavior that shouldn't be explained away?
It's interesting that we, as women manage everything.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Everything.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: We take on, like, so much. So much. And like you've said before, we've taken. We take on the mental load more than men do. And because of that, we're like, okay, now I'm in management mode. I need to know what I can do to manage this situation, because I don't like the end result of the situation. I don't like that he's betraying me. I don't like that he's abusing me. I don't like that he's threatening me. So what can I do to stop that from happening?
Instead of realizing that, like, he's the problem, he's the problem, and you shouldn't have to manage his behavior.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:14:18] Speaker C: But I think a lot of times women also just want to mitigate every issue. Like, you know, we want to find a resolution versus having actual problems. Like, men just don't care.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: I think it's like, the repair piece is harder for men. Like, men tend to be more avoidant of emotional conflict.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah, they're avoidant for sure.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, they want to avoid every issue.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah, they don't.
[00:14:52] Speaker C: They don't act like they care about it.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: And that's how I wanted to roll off. Yeah, that's how it comes off whenever they. Especially when it's betrayal and them having affairs. It's like they. Well, they just never cared anyway because they just go and do something that's that harmful.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: And then they say, sorry, but they do it next week. And you're like, were you sorry?
[00:15:10] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: Like, were you sorry? Then there's also this piece where, like, with the second story where we want to work on repair, and that's driven by something really powerful and actually, like, a core theme that exists between both space stories, which is hope.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. So let's talk about that core theme three.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: So I think, like, this connects back up to core theme one in that the how it began isn't how it ends. And the question of, like, well, why did she stay?
Hope is really powerful, but by asking like, why did she stay?
It makes hope seem like a weakness. And hope is not a weakness. This is one of the most misunderstood parts of these dynamics.
Hope is what keeps someone in it. And from the outside, it can look like denial, but from the inside, it's usually survival. So breaking down these two stories again, in the first story, hope sounds like, maybe I can get through this, maybe it won't escalate. In the second story, hope sounds like maybe this can be repaired.
Maybe it isn't who he really is.
Hope allows you to stay connected to the idea that something can still be saved.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And hope is not a weakness, but hope can be a dangerous thing.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it can.
And it can be very hard to see that line when you're in it.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: I think that hope is a great thing. And women, we, we hang on to that hope a lot because we always see, see the best in people, especially those that we love. So we're like, okay, at one point he showed me a good side of him, so I hope we get back to that. But the problem is a lot of times is that we don't.
Were we shown the real him in the beginning?
And a lot of times the answer to that is no. And so we're holding on to a hope that truly never existed. We never really knew the that true person, and we never really knew them.
And I think too, within the second story, the where they were together for so long. And even in the first one, they were together a long time too. So both stories, they were together for a long time. But the second one didn't have as much like open abuse with like firearms and stuff like that. So I think it was a lot like, harder for her too, because she had said vows and she wanted to stay married to this person because they have been together like since like high school or college or something. They were like long term relationship. And so you have the hope that it will go back to the way it was. But part of that too is time changes somebody and time changes people.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:33] Speaker D: And what you're describing is the point where Hope stops being protective. Because Hope can be protective and it could make you like, if both people are willing to do it, it can make repair possible. But like, in that circumstance that you're describing, it starts keeping you stuck in something that is no longer safe or viable for you.
[00:18:54] Speaker A: Right. And that, so hope is not a weakness, but hope can be dangerous. If we're holding onto it for the wrong reasons or holding on to it in a way that we're allowing it to excuse poor behavior or abusive behavior.
[00:19:10] Speaker D: Right.
And with holding on to hope,
[00:19:16] Speaker A: it
[00:19:16] Speaker D: actually leads us to, like, the fourth core theme of isolation. So in both of these stories, isolation shows up, but in very different ways.
So just tying in the hope piece for a moment, when we're feeling hopeful, we.
Or holding onto hope, we are continuing to invest. Continuing to invest. Giving more, giving more.
And when we're giving more, we only have so much bandwidth that we can give to all of our other relationships. So that begins to isolate us. And in the first story, we see isolation as physical. The environment becomes controlled, the world shrinks around her, and the home becomes unsafe. And in the second, it's emotional. The partner becomes unavailable, deceptive.
And in these types of circumstances, you find yourself alone in a relationship that still technically accept exists. Talk about, like, a real tough form of loneliness.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:26] Speaker D: To have to live in, right? Yep.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: And so I think I've. I mean, we've both been there.
[00:20:33] Speaker D: Yeah, I think a lot of us have been there. And it is really hard to be deeply lonely in a relationship, even when there is someone else physically present. And in both these cases, these women are navigating disconnection without support and trying to make sense of something that doesn't feel right, but trying to do it
[00:21:02] Speaker B: all on their own.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: I think that's a very, very important thing to drive home. A lot of people worry about being lonely. They're like, oh, well, if I'm alone, physically alone, then I'll be lonely. But what some people don't understand, it is worse to be in a relationship and be lonely and still feel like you're alone, because you can still feel like you're alone in that relationship. And it is an awful feeling to have someone sitting on the couch next to you and feel like they're not actually there. Like there's no. They're not present. You. They almost start to feel like a stranger. Like, why? Why is this person in my house and living with me? But I have no comfort. I have no relationship. Like, there's nothing here anymore. So I still feel just as alone.
I think a lot of people think, no, go ahead.
[00:21:52] Speaker D: It's like sitting next to someone on a subway bench waiting for the metro to come in. Complete stranger.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: Yeah, but in your own space.
And I think a lot of people think, like, isolation. So they just isolated you from friends and family. And while. While they do do that, especially, like Narcissists and things like that, like, they do isolate you. What it is is it's isolation in your own home.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: And I think people struggle to understand that difference because when some people say I felt isolated, they're like, oh, so he kept you from friends and family? Well, not necessarily, but you feel isolated at home, like you're just completely alone. And to me that feeling was way worse because that's how it started to fill at the end of my relationship.
And I, it was. I would rather be physically alone, but at content and happy and at peace in my own space than be in a shared space with somebody and feel alone.
[00:22:57] Speaker D: And I think what you're like really pointing towards is the next core theme of control.
Right. And that is fear versus confusion. So this is where these stories look the most different and the most similar at the same time and is probably the case for many women in these situations. In the first story, the control is much more obvious. It's fear based, it's intimidation, there's volatility.
Her body knows and is telling her this is not safe. But in the second story, the control is subtle. She's more isolated. She lives in inconsistency.
She lives in his disappearing, in his lying, in creating a reality that doesn't fully make sense to her, but she doesn't know why. And that kind of control is so disorienting. Similar to sitting on your couch in your home with somebody who's supposed to be your partner that feels like a stranger beside you.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, It's scary because like you said, it's like, it's confusing.
It can be very disorienting.
So it's like, am I scared? Am I confused? I'm both like. And a lot of times, and I think in each situation there was an aspect of that because even in the second story, she may, she may not have felt fear as the first story because of the firearms, but I think she felt fear as in like the loneliness.
[00:24:48] Speaker D: Well, and the confusion and like. Yeah, that's where like there's the fear versus confusion. So sometimes it looks like fear for story. Super clear.
Second story, it's not clear that there's fear necessarily. I imagine there was probably like emotional fear.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Yeah, internal fear going on.
[00:25:10] Speaker D: But like control also looks like confusion and she was like very confused about what was happening. And in both cases it erodes your sense of safety and self trust.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: Yeah, control is this terrifying thing. And I think it's not always what people overtly see. People overtly see, oh well, he's controlling her by not letting her out of the house, or he controls her by telling her what to eat or what to wear. But that's not the only kind of control that there is.
So I think that's important to know that in this situation, there are other kinds of control.
Right.
[00:25:49] Speaker D: And in the second situation, it's so much more subtle in that, like, he is deceptive in what not just what he's telling her, but what he's choosing not to tell her.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Yep.
And that's.
It's even more like, not. Not more. It's not worse than the other situation, but when it is subtle like that, it's harder to pick out. Because in the first situation, you're like, my. Your physical body is like, something is wrong.
There are guns.
[00:26:25] Speaker D: Right.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: And in the second story. In the second story, you're like, what?
[00:26:29] Speaker D: What?
[00:26:31] Speaker A: What? Like, you're so confused what is happening, what is going on? So.
But both are awful. And I think it's a way that men use control in relationships.
Yes.
In a negative way.
[00:26:48] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:26:52] Speaker D: So we've talked a lot about
[00:26:57] Speaker B: what
[00:26:57] Speaker D: keeps people in it. Hope, isolation, control.
Something that's a little bit more positive that I want to acknowledge as a core theme in both the stories is the moment of clarity. So in both these stories, and for most women who, like, get to the other side of this, there's a moment where something shifts.
And in the first story, it's the realization of, I might not survive this. So the fear became too much. In the second, it's the shift from, this is something he did to this is something, or, I'm sorry, this is who he is. And that's much more similar to your story.
[00:27:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%.
[00:27:51] Speaker D: But that distinction is really powerful because many women can forgive behavior, and that's what keeps us stuck.
But what becomes much harder to reconcile is the pattern. And when the pattern becomes undeniable, that's when that clarity can come through.
And I said, like, clarity is positive, but because it can, like, create movement and create change. But clarity can also feel devastating. And I think we have to acknowledge that too.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
Because that's when you get the clarity. That's when you know it's over.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: It's when you know you have to leave and you have to make a change. And so that part of it is devastating. It can also feel like a weight off your shoulders at the same time. Those. Those feelings are not one and, like, inexclusive to each other. Like, it can feel devastating and relief. It can feel great. To have the clarity but also feel devastating because of what you're going to have to do with that clarity. I think in both of these cases, especially for me, the second one, as you said, that's the one I relate to the most with Dick. Because in the beginning it was something he did. I was going to take him back. Whenever I found out there were 20 plus women, it was no longer a question of him. It was like, this is who he is. Like he is a person for the rest of his life. He's never gonna be okay with one person because he constantly needs validation and he constantly needs the excitement and the change. So, so he's going to do this forever. Like it is a him issue.
It is who he is as a person. And I would venture to guess that a lot. Unless the men who do these things before really go get help and truly admit that they have issues and truly work on themselves, which a lot of men are not willing to do, right. If, if they, if they don't do that, they're going to continue the pro. The pattern in the process. And in the first one, think like realizing that she might not survive it. Like, I mean that episode was terrifying to like read. And you know, our first thought is like, who do we report this person to? Because like he, like, is he going to do something to whoever is like at some point it would not surprise me if I see the news and he has done something to another woman.
Because that is a terrifying situation. And, and having access to that many deadly weapons and everything, it was, it was so scary. But I'm glad that both of these women had that moment of clarity. I know for us when we have our moments of clarity, like, like you said, it can be devastating.
But for me, my moment of clarity was relief.
[00:30:44] Speaker C: Me too.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: When I found out that it actually helped me to find out that he had that many affairs. Which sounds crazy, but that's when I learned that it was a him problem.
[00:30:55] Speaker D: Right, and that's also the moment for you. And this actually brings us to the final core theme that I saw in these is that's the moment that you chose to stop self abandoning. And in both these stories, these women initially lost themselves to stay. And this is so common in this type of relationship. So just breaking it down for these two stories. Both these stories at their core are about self loss. One woman is being torn down, her confidence, her sense of safety, her identity.
And then the other is slowly disappearing. She's losing herself by over functioning, accommodating, trying to hold everything together.
Different paths, same outcome.
They both had to disconnect from themselves and their identity to stay. And that's part of what often lingers even after the relationship ends.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Yep. Is finding yourself again.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:32:06] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: And working your way back to that. And I. I personally know the person and from the second story. So she's thriving. Let me tell you. Like, she's amazing. So she's. She is living her best life and thriving.
I.
But it takes time to get there.
[00:32:27] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:32:28] Speaker A: For any of us. And even for me, like, my life's not perfect. No one's is.
Like. And that's the thing. You're not trying to get a perfect life. You're trying to get a happy.
For me. Peaceful.
[00:32:40] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: And, like, content life. And that's where I think I have started to reach and that it feels good to finally feel like you're getting to that side. Like, it took a lot of time to get there, but I do feel like I'm getting to that side.
If it wasn't for the financial abuse side of my relationship, then I would probably fully be there. But because of the financial abuse, it. It takes a little longer when you're dealing with financial stuff to. To fully heal and find yourself again. But, you know, that's one things we're working through.
But.
Yeah, but I'm glad that these women, you know, have. Have, like you said the same story. And at the core of that was losing themselves. And after getting away, these women are working on building themselves back to what they. What they either were before or even better than they were before because they've learned something from this.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: Right.
Right.
[00:33:39] Speaker D: And that's, like, where healing and resiliency intersect.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And you gotta keep going with it. That's the number one thing. Like, you gotta be resilient and you gotta keep going and you gotta keep working. And we can always be. Heal from something and. And working towards, you know, making.
Loving ourselves more and making ourselves feel more whole.
[00:34:06] Speaker D: Exactly. And what these stories show us and stories that I'm sure so many of your listeners identify with in their own life is that.
And I hope that they hear this message loud and clear. Like, if you are somebody right now who is questioning your situation and you are listening to this episode, Harm is not a one size fits all.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: 100%.
[00:34:42] Speaker D: Sometimes it's loud, sometimes it's quiet, sometimes it's obvious, and sometimes it's hard to name.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Yep, it sure is. And. And it's.
But it's there.
Yeah, but it's there. Like, harm is there. And like, I Said it can be hard to name sometimes, but it's there.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: It's there.
[00:35:04] Speaker D: And a relationship that required you to abandon yourself in order to maintain it is not a safe place to stay, no matter what the circumstances are.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Yes.
Right.
And I.
I think that that's one of the most important things we can say in this is do not stay in a place that has.
You've had to abandon yourself for.
[00:35:29] Speaker B: Right.
[00:35:30] Speaker A: That is not helpful to you at all, and you're not being true to yourself.
Right.
[00:35:35] Speaker D: And also recognize that healing doesn't come immediately from the leaving. It comes from the coming back to yourself.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Explain that.
[00:35:48] Speaker D: So it comes from choosing yourself, from trusting your instincts again, from no longer carrying what was never yours to carry, from seeing clearly what you once tried to make sense of but didn't make sense because you couldn't make sense of it because it was so illogical.
From choosing yourself even when that choice is painful. And sometimes that painful choice is the choosing to leave.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: Yes. And I think it's one of the things that I often go back to is it doesn't make sense to you because you never would have done that to that person, because you never would have done that to any person. You can't imagine doing what the person who said they love you did to you, to anyone else. And that's why it doesn't make sense.
And it takes a long time. Like, I don't know about you, but for me personally, I still don't trust my instincts. There is no way I'm dating because I do not trust that I will pick a good person. Because I'm like, what did. What did I do? What did I miss on the last one? Like, I missed all kinds of stuff. So, like, I'm not gonna sit there and. And do this again.
Right. Like, for myself right now, I'm like. And it's gonna take a long time for me to ever trust myself in that realm again.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: Right.
And that shows a lot of insight on your part because it's recognizing a part of you that is not fully healed yet and still needs work.
[00:37:29] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: If I could, like, leave your listeners today with a really strong and important message. It's that if you saw yourself in any part of these stories, I want you to know this.
Your experience counts, your pain is valid. And clarity, when it comes, may be painful, but. But it's not cruel. It is the beginning of something better. But you gotta take those first steps.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Absolutely. And I think that this was a great episode to do. I love comparing two. Because I think that while they were very, as we've discussed different stories, they had a massive amount of underlying cores that were the same. And I think that that's the point, as we've said on this podcast, is to be like, hey, there's other people who've been there too. You are not alone. People have not only been there, but gotten to the other side, so you can, too. And that's where the hope is powerful.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Right.
Right.
[00:38:45] Speaker A: To tie it all back together so.
Well, thank you, Suzanne, for taking the time to go through those stories and dissect them and actually pull all those comparisons out. I think this was a great episode and I think it'd be something that our listeners would. Would love to see again, like, down the road.
[00:39:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I would welcome doing something like this again. It was.
Going through the process of doing this was very eye opening for me, even though I. I see this in my work to put two very different stories side to side. What stood out to me is statements clients make to me around like, well, I didn't have it that bad, and dismiss and invalidate their experience. These two experiences show that the situations can look very different, but the dynamics, the isolation, the control, the hope, the loss of self are the same. And that sense of connection is so powerful for healing. After we have that moment of clarity. And I hope that this episode offers at least one of your listeners a moment of clarity.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: We hope so, too. And if you are that listener and that clarity does come to you from this episode, send us a message and let us know.
You know, we would love to share that back with Suzanne. And also we love to hear from our listeners. And, um, you know, we do get messages from people all the time saying how we've helped them know that they're not alone or given them the strength to want to leave or whatever the case ends up being, or just sharing their story as part of the healing process. And that's their first step in healing. So definitely let us know and we will see you next week.
Bye.
[00:40:45] Speaker B: Thanks for having me on.
[00:40:47] Speaker A: Yes, thanks. Thanks, Suzanne, for coming on and we will definitely have you on again.
[00:40:52] Speaker B: Looking forward to it.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances, contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000 or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go at it alone.
