Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to Spill the Tea Unfiltered.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Hey, guys.
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. And today we have Nicole Wilson with us, and she is the founder of Fortify Alabama. So, Nicole, tell us what Fortify Alabama is.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Yeah, we are an organization based out of north Alabama that focuses on education and awareness of human trafficking. But while we also support the victims of it and other vulnerable populations.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Which I met you at a conference and I thought it was very well done and very well put on. In my mind, I was like, this conference could be like, three days. Like, I was like, we need more. We need more of this.
And I think I wanted you to come on to give our listeners, like, to talk about human trafficking what it is, you know, how.
What is actually going on. Because a lot of people think, is the movie taken and that's not what it actually is? Like, that's actually a very small percentage of human trafficking. So why don't you tell us a little bit about, like, what actually is human trafficking and, like, so that our listeners can actually know what it is. Because some people may not even know exactly what it is.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Yes. So human trafficking is basically the exploitation through force, fraud, or coercion. You have to have at least one of those elements for it to be classified as human trafficking, which can be pretty difficult. And that's why the reports get. Or the numbers get a little skewed and underreported. Because, you know, what often looks like prostitution or labor trafficking is even more difficult is often you have to get through the story of what's going on in their life, how they got to that point, what's keeping them there, to find out that it is actually human trafficking. When it's a minor, though, there's no need for force, fraud, or coercion. If it's a minor and there's sex involved, it's automatically considered human trafficking.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Which I think is important because I think a lot of people don't realize that. People like to say that when that kids can choose.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
And I think that's what I'm passionate about. I mean, all of it's important. Even the adults, they are important and getting them the help so that they can get out of this lifestyle and get away from their traffickers and stuff. But for me, I'm passionate about, like, the children and trying to protect them. And you can't get their innocence back once it's gone. But try to help them get through it and then move past it or at least learn to live with what happened to them.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And with children, it's interesting because they assume that most of the numbers when it comes to human trafficking is actually familial trafficking. So that's where a family member is the one that's trafficking them. I think they say around like 50% is familial trafficking when it comes to children. And then about 40% to 50% of that is the actual mother trafficking them,
[00:02:51] Speaker A: which I think people don't talk about.
Yeah, I think people don't talk about that.
That it's the mom. You know, a lot of people will immediately assume it's the dad.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: And they're, they're doing it for either financial gain or for drugs is a lot of what we have in this week.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I've, I know of a situation in North Carolina where it was drugs and she sold her five year old for, for drugs.
So what is Fortify doing to try to help? Like what, what all do you guys. What's in your toolbox? What do you guys do?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Right. So again we do a lot of the education and awareness. So we'll do awareness boosts throughout the year at different locations. Try to just bring awareness that it is happening in the city. We do our big annual conference which is what you were able to attend. Well, we have very diverse speakers on different topics. So last year this, it was really good because we had an iconographer who was amazing with human trafficking, branding and tattoos. There were Jared with Stillwaters was there talking about the lack of restoration programs for men.
It was just a wide berth of different topics. And that's always really good for people to hear because it touches everything.
And then we offer advocacy when it comes to like working with local like Huntsville Police Department. We work a lot with them when it comes to their operations. We offer off to go with them to do aftercare with them.
We have other resources that we offer too. So we do boots on the ground efforts like which is our motel outreach. So we're going to the motels in Huntsville to just kind of love on everybody. That's another big one that kind of gets people too is that, you know, we'll come face to face with johns or pimps or you know, traffickers, whatever it may be. And we're going to sit there and talk to them and love on them just the same as, as the girls that we come across too because everybody comes from a world of hurt or trauma and so hurt people, hurt people. We to love on all of them. We also have a mobile boutique so we take that mobile boutique to the motels and offer the, the girls just a private moment to shop for clothing that they need, hygiene products. It gives us an opportunity to get kind of closer to them and have conversation in a more intimate kind of way, a more private scenario. And it also just gets them aware of, fortify. So in hopes that we build a relationship with them so when they're ready to leave, we can be that resource for them.
We also offer animal support, which is a weird one that catches a lot of people off guard. So a lot like domestic violence, they won't leave their situation if there's a love pet involved. It's something that loves them unconditionally. They're worried their trafficker or their abuser is going to beat the animal or kill the animals, so they just won't leave. So we work with local rescues in the area to remove that barrier so they can seek the help that they need as well. Those are kind of our big, like, main hit points, I'd say, right now. But we're always kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall, see what else sticks to.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that you guys include the animals because I think that that's, that's a big one for people because they don't like leaving their animals at all.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's a, that's definitely been a big one.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's talk about how hurt people hurt people and the traffickers. Right. So it's easy to just obviously, I mean, for me personally, like, it is hard to see them as people because of what they're doing to other people. Right.
But one of the things that the church that I'm involved with, that you also know about with trafficking, Hope, is that, you know, you pray for the traffickers too, because if, if you can reach the trafficker, then that saves all of those women.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Yep. It stops it.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: And that's, I think, something that people don't think about.
So it's hard to want to pray or to talk those people as humans when they're not treating others as humans.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: But a lot of these people were abused and come from it too.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah, they're coming from definitely. A lot of them have childhood, either abuse, sexual abuse or something in their life. We had the opportunity to talk to a group one time that does strip club ministry.
And a good example of what they've gone and seen is there was a gentleman who owned a strip club that had a lot of trafficking that was going on in there. And so when they brought their ministry into there they quickly learned that that was the only life that he knew. He didn't see anything wrong with it because at 8 years old he was having his birthday, it was his parents strip club back in the day. So he didn't see anything wrong with what was going on. It was just totally normal for him. And so once that ministry came in, it was eye opening for him to see everything that was wrong in a sense. And so eventually he actually shut down his club at some point after he like, you know, they brought gospel to him as well. So it was amazing opportunity for them to kind of completely close that chapter in his life and start fresh basically.
And we see the same thing. The Johns, especially the Byers, a lot of them have sexual trauma in their lives that have brought them to this point. And so yeah, if we can shed some light and have our opportunity, we, we just started working with a men's ministry, Street Grace. And so some of our guys are still training on the system and stuff like that. But what they do is they create fake AI ads in the city. And so they posted one, I'd say like Wednesday morning at 8 o' clock in the morning there was already 23 hits by John's on it by 9:30 in the morning. So an hour and a half it took 23 hits. But the, the AI, the ad is created and then it gives an opportunity to either waste their time in hopes that they won't buy that day or it'll actually give us an opportunity to step in and have a conversation.
So the guys can have a conversation and say hey, this is wrong. Do you need support? We would love to be that support system for you or even bring the gospel to them as well. So. But yes, definitely with the traffickers too. We see it where there's something that has caused them to get into this situation and they just, they don't see where the wrong has come from it. And so any opportunity that we have to love on them and that it takes a special kind of person.
A lot of my guys are security because they, you know, they would have a hard time and that's why my husband doesn't do this. Like, yeah, just to be honest, like I, I have to be very, you know, keep that boundary safe for him because we have two small children and, and his thing is to just. Justice.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: So he would not be able to sit there in front of somebody and be able to pray over them. It takes a special kind of person for sure.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: 100 because I, I will talk to victims all day or survivors What? We don't want to call them victims, but I would talk to them, but I.
I would have a hard time with. With an actual trafficker. Because.
Because we can't excuse it. Right. Like, we're not making excuses, oh, they've been hurt, so it's okay. Like, no, it's not okay. It's. What they're doing is not okay.
And it gets frustrating when you look at other people who were also hurt.
Jared shared that he had been hurt in his childhood, but he's doing good. Right. He's creating still waters. He's doing it for good. I was molested by my neighbor as a child.
I went into something positive with my career to make a difference. And I feel like you can make a choice. Right. And so. But I also had a support system and parents who loved me enough for me to be able to go to college and get educated and do those things. So that has a lot to do with it, too. A lot of these people end up not. It was their family who did this to them. They never found a safe space, whether it was with friends or whoever their safe space. Space was.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: Yep. So there is a.
Like, it's hard to remind yourself of that. But I do think that that's something that, for anyone listening, like, if you do pray at all, that is something to consider is also lifting them up because if they break the cycle, then that saves more than just one woman. That saves multiple women.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And sometimes, honestly, like with some of these traffickers and johns and stuff like that, sometimes the best thing for them is to be put in jail for time being. You know, it is. It is extreme hard to charge somebody with human trafficking, though, without explicit evidence. And that's why a lot of girls don't come forward, too, is because they can't handle the trial because of what trafficking does. Same reasons that people are kind of jaded with trafficking.
You know, why did you stay all this stuff? So a lot of lawyers will sit there and tear into them for multiple reasons. And it is very hard to prosecute unless you have multiple girls.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: It's just like domestic violence. Yeah.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: They.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: The.
The abuse. You're reliving your physical and. Or emotional abuse, again, like, through the stand. And it's. And I hate that part of our justice system, that there isn't a better way to do that. Can we talk about strip clubs and, like, the pornography strip clubs, the. The entertainment industry.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: If you.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: I have to be careful with how
[00:11:37] Speaker A: much I talk about strip clubs. Right. Okay. So let's Talk about the entertainment industry, if you will, because the thing with the entertainment industry is a lot of people don't see a problem with it.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: They think, they think that a lot of these women have chose to do this, and in a roundabout way, some have, but it's because they have no other choice.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Right. You know, it's lack of education or they make a certain amount of money. That's good. But what people don't talk about a lot with strip clubs is the stage fees that they're charged or, you know, the, the drugs that go through there and all the different things that keep them. They are stuck. They are feeling stuck, you know, feeling that this is their only option, especially with those stage fees. If they're paying a stage fee before they get on, you know, what if they don't make the money to recoup that stage fee now, they're accruing a debt of stage fees, you know, so, yeah, strip clubs are a tough one for sure. I'm not the gentleman who owns a lot of the strip clubs in Huntsville is not a fan of me. Let's just say that, yeah, if we're unfiltered, that's.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that's where that's going. Me and Angela talked about him on Thursday.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Definitely not a fan of me. I. Yeah, I've raised a fuss a couple of times in the city of Huntsville just because we're at the Christmas parade, the Huntsville Christmas parade, and we've got a strip club float. We've got, you know, strip club trees at Tinsel Trail. And when it's a family friendly event, you know, things like that, that I'm just like, you know, we're, we're breaking into this culture where it's okay to do these kind of things with children.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: They're normalizing it. They're trying to normalize it.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's. It gets to be a little bit, you know, and that's where somebody not saying it has to be me, but I just happened to raise my voice last time, but somebody's got to say something about it, because it shouldn't be something that's normalized for our children, you know, that it's okay for, you know, girls don't grow up saying, oh, you know what? I want to be a stripper when I grow up.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's wild to me that the chamber of commerce runs the tinsel tree, so that they allowed that.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: It's a, it's a non profit downtown Huntsville that runs it. And their justification, when I brought it up to them was, you know, we can't turn down any business. We, we can't pick and choose which businesses we support. And I was like, well, you could set, like, guidelines or rules and say, okay, well, if a child can't enter this business, then maybe it's not family friendly. And they were like, well, a child can't work with a dealership. And I'm like, you can still step into a dealership with a child. Like, there's a vast difference here.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Like, it's not, it's not the same. You know what that tells me is that somebody on that panel goes to the strip club. That's what that tells me.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I, yeah, I try to say I said my piece.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't blame you. Well, in the one that's being that they're currently building, that he is currently building is two stories. So we know what's going to happen on that second story.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've, yeah, we've, we've heard some stories of what goes on in those back rooms and things like that. So it's, it's definitely interesting what happens behind closed doors with these strip clubs and stuff. And that's what people don't, you know, that they. The naivety of, of what goes on in strip clubs because they think it's a choice. Again, same thing with, with prostitution, with, with trafficking. They think the girls are choosing this. And a lot of times they just don'. Better options. Some girls, yes, they choose to do this is not by any means above average, though.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: That's what I was gonna say. So out of the work that you've done and you've seen, because you're in this work all the time talking to these women, you would say the vast majority don't choose this. It's because they don't have the education or don't feel they have the options to be able to get out of this life.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah. What some girls make in a ship club, obviously, is good money. And they see that as, where else am I going to make this kind of money without, you know, being able to support my kids, things like that. So the options make it really tough for them sometimes.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I was speaking with somebody who was a former stripper and she, she said the same thing. She said that she never even really planned on being in that life, but someone introduced her to that life and said, you can make good money over here. And she was a struggling single mom.
And so then she was like, well, then let me go over here and do this. And then she made a lot of money. But then all the other things that came with it, stage fees, basically being a drug mule, those type things, made her be like, is this the life I want? Do I want my kids seeing this life and ending up in this life? And ultimately she was able to get out. But it. It's hard to leave that behind. That. That cash money at the end of the day, that's. That's a hard life to leave. And I know, like, in Florida a lot of times, like, under the table, of course, but, like, my best friend was 17, stripping in Florida because she
[00:16:09] Speaker B: was a single mom.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: I've heard some of the girls that slide in. Yeah. Get in there very quietly with a fake ID or something like that.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: That's.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: She didn't have a fake id.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: They didn't.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: They didn't care.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: And that's. I mean, and that's the thing is, like, if it. If it's not regulated or anything else or nobody's, like, paying attention and so nothing's happening, then it's like, it's. It's a hard battle to win and to. And to stop because. And that's ultimately the reason that these things happen and these. The women that are in it are in it is because somebody's willing to pay.
And that's. That's the major issue anyways, that there's buyers.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. The demand is great, for sure. Yeah.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: The United States is the biggest buyer of any kind of trafficking currently. Yeah.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Yep. And people think that it's a third world problem.
Like, 100 people are just like, oh, this is a third world problem. I'm like, no, this is a U.S. problem. This is a here problem. And people also don't understand labor trafficking. They don't think that's a thing. A lot of people think that. Especially for immigrants that come over. Yeah. They think that they chose this. They're like, oh, no, they. They're here working, trying to. You know what. No matter what side of the political aisle you're on, there's an excuse for both sides. And I'm like, no, A lot of them come over because somebody said, you could. I'll show you a better life if you come over here and work in this massage parlor. And then they hold their passports hostage.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Hostage. Yep. Yeah. That happens so frequently with the passports, any kind of visa or anything like that. They're holding their identification and they're threatening ICE to them and things like that. And some of them are legally here.
It's just. Yeah, there. There's definitely a stigma that comes with labor trafficking, especially when you get into, like, those rule, like, states and stuff like that, when it's the farms, chicken farms, you know, the dealership plants, things like that.
So, yeah, we're. We're. We see a big struggle with labor trafficking. And labor trafficking is tough, too, because a lot of times, like, we just had one recently where she didn't speak any English, the victim didn't speak any English whatsoever, which makes it really hard for any kind of placement, because at these restoration programs, there's not somebody on staff. They're already limited on their staff. Well, now you have the chance that somebody knows that language.
Same thing with massage parlors. A lot of it tends to be Chinese, and it's really hard to have a Chinese translator for that. Those kind of situations. And Google Translate is not always great.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And we just had a big bust in Huntsville for labor trafficking that made the news for a Chinese restaurant.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Operation Media Strike is such a clever name. I love that we were able to support with Aftercare for that and be a partner and with HPD and all the other three letter agencies. So that was a really good operation for us.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And it was headed by a female. Right. A female trafficker. Yeah. So. And I think that that's the other thing, is it isn't only men trafficking. It is women trafficking, too. I mean, it's easy to, like, be like, okay, it's men, which it is like, don't get me wrong, Especially when it comes to sex trafficking. Yeah, it's a lot of men traffickers, but they. But there are women who are willing to do it, too.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And then you got to think, too, there's a lot of women that are complicit in the sense of the bottoms, is what they call them. And so those are the girls who are running the show when the trafficker is not around or the traffickers in jail or something like that. But, yeah, there's. The recruiters are. A lot of times are girls. Things like that, too.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And then. But the thing with bottoms, too, that's unfortunate is because that's. They're in the life, right. So they're trusted by the trafficker or pimp. And it's.
They. They are also, like, in this weird stuck scenario. So, like, they're. It's like people are like, oh, well, there's. She's choosing to be there. And it's like, that's not necessarily true.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Like, that's all. That's only like she knows.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: It's the same way with labor trafficking. You know, you can have a victim who is stuck there because of labor trafficking, but he's the one that's holding the keys, that's, you know, keeping them in that house or whatever. Or he's the one that's driving them and transport, supporting them. Even though he's got greater privileges, he's still a victim, but he's complicit now in the human trafficking.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's the, that's what makes it hard too, and to prosecute and to do all the, all those things.
Can you talk about some, like the fortify conference, you had some really good statistics that you had up. Can you talk about like some of those like, statistics with like when it comes to.
And again, they're going to be skewed and under underreported because people aren't going to report.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Law enforcement advocates tend to say that only 5 to 15% of human trafficking cases are ever actually discovered or reported. So these numbers could be heavily skewed. But yeah, I mean, you know, ILO suggested in 2022 that there was 49.6 million people in modern day slavery. So that, that's already a big number. And that was four years ago that they, they came out with that number. There was like 27, 0.6 million that were in forced labor, 6.3 million in sex trafficking. And then they report that like 150 billion globally and 99 billion of that is from sex trafficking. So again, like the USA is the, the largest sex buyer in the entire world.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: So it's interesting because forced labor has a higher percentage, but sex trafficking makes more money.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Yep. It's an interesting thing. And the, and the reason too is you can rebuy them.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. Just like it's gonna surpass drugs at some point because you can buy a girl over and over and over again. You can only sell a drug one time.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: And to think that that is very likely underreported is terrifying.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
And do you. So I know a lot of the biggest events for trafficking are your big sporting events.
So super.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: And not even just sporting events. If you think about it. There was a huge bust at Comic Con a couple of years ago too. So it's like, it's big events like that.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: Just big events where people gather. So FIFA over the summer, I know that there was a lot that came out of that.
The super bowl always has a lot that comes out of it.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: So do you even college football games. That's where a lot of the sugaring comes from, which we discuss a lot
[00:22:30] Speaker A: too talk about that because Alabama is in the top 10.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So sugaring is that old fashioned, you know, sugar daddy, sugar mama kind of terminology. But they've, they've created websites now that are completely legal because there's not an expectation, they say on these sites that are for the money, but you have to assume that if you are getting an allowance from a gentleman or a female that there's, there is an expectation that's coming out of it. You know, they're not just doing it because they enjoy having you on their arm for the night.
And that's what a lot of influencers pitch it as is that, you know, hey, all I have to do is show up in a pretty dress and go wherever they want and they'll take me all over the world and they'll buy everything that I need. And these sites are even giving discounts to like edu email addresses. So if you're in college and stuff that they'll give you a free account or they'll give you an upgrade in an account just to pitch more college students. And they would put billboards out saying, hey, this pays for your, your books and your tuition. But sometimes they're a little bit more blunt than that. Yes, sugaring is a really big one that I struggle with. And I really like dug into it two conferences ago. Like I did a whole topic on sugaring, so I even made like, which they make it really difficult. But I made a fake account and quickly learned that there is definitely an expectation that came with that. The messages that came in were so to the point. You know, there's one site, what's your price? That basically you go in, you make an account and the guys pitch, you know, how much money that they, and what they want on their dates. And then the girls go in and pick what they, which date that they want to go on and things like that. So yeah, they, they're, they're pretty blunt about what they, what they expect for them. The money that they're giving you.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it makes me wonder because I knew somebody like several years ago who was, she said getting paid fifteen hundred dollars every time she went on a date with this gentleman. And he would, he on top of, he would send her a clothing allowance and be like, I want you to wear the color red. I want your nails painted this color. And she would go to the spa and everything and he would pay for all that. And then she Would meet him for his date. And she said that that's all he ever like, according to her, they never did anything sexual. And I was always like, is that real?
[00:24:44] Speaker B: If that's the case, then she found a gem. Because I'll tell you what, just from my, like three days of having an account, there was not a gem on there.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: It was all very explicit about what they wanted for that money. So with that, that account. Yeah. Not to say that it's not, but it has to be a small percentage of guys that they're asking for that. Yeah. And then like you were saying, University of Alabama has been in the top 10 schools for sugaring for over a decade now.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Scares me for my stepdaughter.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So. And that's just because of the football games. The football games. Really, the, the guys want to have that pretty girl on their arm for
[00:25:19] Speaker A: those dates, which is so gross. It's hard because I'm like, are these men married? Like, what is happening? Like, and they probably are.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: How many of them were married and, and had to hide their identity and things like that and how the average age for them and stuff like that.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: So what did you find?
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Most of them were middle aged and they had at least two kids. Married, Most of them.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: Yeah. See, affairs, man. They're all out there just having affairs. And the thing is, is that there would be somebody in their family who would be absolutely shocked. They'd be like, I never saw that coming.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: But a lot of times it's guys who are traveling and stuff like that too, because obviously if they walked around, somebody's going to eventually recognize them. Unless they're just that bold to think that no one's ever going to recognize them with, you know, a stepdaughter at their arm or something like that, you know. But, but yeah, no, I mean, a lot of them are. Are traveling in or traveling out because of the arsenal. We see a lot of it too.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: So, yeah, my attorney and I, when we were talking and going through my divorce and everything, and my husband, or my now ex husband had like 20 plus affairs. He was talking about how Huntsville itself has one of the highest rates of affairs and infidelity in the country per capita because of all the in and out and traveling that this, this small city has. But has a lot of in and out.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, that's why our strip clubs are so popular too. And then why we have so many. Because when you think about it, Nashville has fewer strip clubs than we do and they're a bigger city, so. But we have four that are right
[00:26:46] Speaker A: here, and they're all right next to each other.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And then you talk about the couple that are outside the city limits, like Fantasia. And then there's another one out, like Tony area or something like that, too. So, yeah, we have a lot of them just because of the arsenal, and they can write them off as business meals.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: It's just so gross. And I think sugaring. A lot of people think it's harmless because a lot of people, like, I mean, we. We joke around all the time. And that's one of the things that, like, before I really. I mean, I've always been in this world for a while, but we would joke and be like, oh, you know, I'm gonna go find me a sugar daddy. But it's like a joke. But then you like the boat. Yeah, with a boat. But then you joke about it and you're like, no, this is like a real problem and a real thing. Yeah. And.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And I just, to be completely transparent, I dealt with it when I was in college. And I look a little bit younger than I am, but when I was like, in college, I looked extremely young. Like when I was like, 19, 20, I look like I was 16, like, kind of thing. So. And I was working at a bakery, and I had a guy come in constantly that was asking me for a date. Going on a date. Going on a date with me. Going to date with me. And I thought he was like, late 30s, early 40s, I'm looking 16 kind of ordeal.
And I kept pushing it off. I was saying, no, no, this. But then it was. All the divorced women in the bakery were like, you should just do it. It's a sugar daddy. Just do it. Just go on a date one day. Just see how it goes. And eventually I was like, you know what I'll do one day? Just to. Just to show you guys this is a terrible idea. So I went on one date, had dinner, had. Went to see a movie. It was horrible. Like, it was. It was so awkward. I looked like this guy's either grandchild or like, you know, very young daughter. And. And we were treated as such, too. I refused to hold his hand. I was like, this is so awkward when he's driving me back to my dorm, which is a problem in of itself. He's like, do you need groceries? Do you need some gas for your vehicle?
[00:28:37] Speaker A: What do you need?
[00:28:38] Speaker B: What do you need? And so I get back to my dorm and I tell my roommates, I said, this is a terrible idea. Like, I said, I Went ahead and texted him. I was like, this is not going to work. He was like, but it works for Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher. That was at the time. That was his experience. Excuse. I was like, no, man, this isn't gonna work. I was like, how old are you, anyways? He was like, oh, I'm 55. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no way. At that time, I didn't think anything of it. I just left it alone. I, you know, me back then didn't even remember it. I had told my husband when we first started dating and stuff like that, that that incident happened and stuff like that. So when I got into this human trafficking world, I was like, yeah, I don't have any experience with any of this. He said, you went on a sugaring date. Like some guy targeted you and tried to get you to be a sugar baby. I was like, you know this stuff better than I do.
[00:29:22] Speaker A: You're like, you're right. That did happen to me.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Yeah, but I mean, yeah, it's.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: It's.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: It's a stigma, too, where it's. It's. Again, it's being normalized. It's, you know, it's okay if it help. Let him help you pay for your college stuff.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: Right? And I think that's the. That's the scary part is it's like one of those things where it's like, well, you know, let him pay for it. It's okay.
But. And where's that line? Right? Because, like, you're an adult at that point, like in college or eight. Well, you should, hopefully, or 18 or almost 18, because some people are young for college age, but you're an adult, but you're still not fully formed in your frontal lobe, so you don't know what you're getting into and stuff. And then is that going to get you into another life? Is he going to start trading you with his friends? Is he gonna. You don't know where it's gonna lead. And I think people just think, oh, I'm just getting money, and if I have to do sexual favor sometimes for this money, oh, well. Or they just don't care. But then it's like, okay, but where's it gonna lead and what's gonna happen? And is it. Are you really saying yes? Are you really consenting to this? Or is it like you're being coerced?
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah, we've seen some accounts that are used where it's. It's a trafficker that's actually using a sugaring site as a way to exploit their girls, too. Like just. Just another way to get the. The. Their escort ads out, basically.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that people don't think about that. They think that it's going to be, like, just an easy, safe thing. And you're like, these men could easily also abuse you and beat you and everything else and control and all the. All the things that can end up happening. And I think people just don't think about it. And it is scary that Alabama has been in the top 10. But it makes sense with the. With the football games. But that goes to my point that a lot of the buyers are men.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: I know that there are female traffickers, but I venture to say that the vast majority of buyers.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Are men.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. We had. And I don't know how familiar you guys are with Huntsville, but we had one of our volunteers that was on University Drive near, like, you know, Olive Garden kind of area. There's that rental car agency right there. And she was walking to another rental car agency right there in Jordan. So you're talking like half a mile of a walk. And this is Wednesday, 2:00 in the afternoon. And so blunt. And so they just don't have any Care Bears whatsoever. She got stopped three times to see if she was for sale. Three times in broad daylight walking down your.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: That's why I don't go to Jordan, she says, I took it to Jordan Lane.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. She had a backpack on. She was just walking from one rental car agency to the other, and three different guys tried to stop her.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: It's because people will say, too. They'll be like, this is a big city problem, but it's not. It's an everywhere problem. And that's the thing. People like, we are a big city now, if you will, because we are the largest in Alabama now, but we're not a New York. We're not a Washington, D.C. and yes, those places have it, but so do we. Yeah. You guys created fortify. What year did you guys establish?
[00:32:21] Speaker B: So we're about a year and a half old. A little over. Yeah. So back in 2025.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: And you guys. You guys did it because you. You saw a need for it because there wasn't anybody doing it in this area other than, like, some churches. But there's.
They had limitations.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:37] Speaker B: There's too many. There's too many safe safety guards that prevent us from any kind of strip club ministry, any kind of motel outreach, anything like that that is potentially unsafe, you know, for church members. And stuff. So yeah, we, we created fortified to be that boots on the ground opportunity to, to reach people.
[00:32:54] Speaker A: And if people want to get involved with fortify, there are opportunities for that, especially here locally. But even if somebody wants to support you guys that aren't local, there are opportunities for that.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Our website has all the information of all the different teams and then we have an application process and everything again, again, because we, you know, stress, you know, we're not the ones kicking down doors and, and rescuing people, you know, and you have to have a good mindset for this. So we just, you know, we love people to apply and we go through an interview process and application just to make sure that, you know, the right mindset is set for that. We're not giving you the wrong expectation of what you're getting out of it. So. But we do we have even like a prayer team where we send out a text every single time that we go and do an operation or meet up with a victim, do a transportation, anything like that. We have an opportunity for prayer beforehand that just goes to text everybody. There's the, the animal transportation. You know, we go and pick up the animals and get them to a rescue. We'll sometimes have a day or two in between where we need to have a, a temporary foster basically before we get them to a rescue. But yeah, there's a lot of different opportunities even not to. To be that more boots on the ground.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
So I know you mentioned like the boutique earlier that y' all have for them. So how does that work? Like, do you take donations for those items or.
[00:34:15] Speaker B: Yep, yeah, we take clothing items, hygiene products. We put bibles and journals. We put stuffed animals in there for them. Sometimes we come across kids, but a lot of times the girls just really enjoy having a stuffed animal too. We'll have roses in there, jewelry, things like that. Yeah. So just essentials that they need frequently. Shoes, pants. Yeah, things like that. They can always reach out to us through the website and we can meet up with them and get the clothing or whatever items that they may have.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Are you a non profit? Yes. Okay, so do you take like financial donations as well to like help support everything? So because I know a lot of our listeners are not local to the area, we have listeners all over the US and then actually like all over like Canada and the UK and stuff. So if people wanted to help donate towards supporting your organization, then there's an option for that as well.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're. Right now we're, you know, raising funds to not only because we're all completely volunteer right now, so we're raising funds to just keep ourselves flowing, but at the same time we have a goal, hopefully to one day have an actual facility where the girls can come in for reprieve and do Bible studies with us or just get the essentials instead of waiting for the mobile boutique to come to them, but just, you know, have that opportunity to come to us for. For what they need. If they need to get out, then we're there for them and ready to go.
[00:35:34] Speaker A: That's great. I think that would be an awesome thing. I think the closest. There's not a lot here like in Huntsville yet for that support.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: Two restoration programs that we work with closely. That's one in Nashville, one in Birmingham, but those are the closest ones. And then when you talk about minors, then the closest ones at the bottom of Alabama.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: Do you have any statistics on that that you can talk about real quick about, like what the minors versus like adults that are being trafficked.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: So you mean like, like child trafficking or you're talking about like when we talk about like sexual exploitation, like online sex portion and stuff?
[00:36:07] Speaker A: I mean, honestly, both, because I think that that's important for parents to know because we have a lot of parents that listen to the podcast. So maybe just like. And especially what to look out for for their children, especially with the. The like child exploitation part.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean they're. They estimate anywhere like around 300, 000 of children that are being sex trafficked in the U.S. that's what they estimate right now. And I. They say about like only 1% of child trafficking victims are ever really recovered or identified.
So that, I mean, that gives you an idea right there about how bad it is with child trafficking. But when it comes to like extortion, which is the idea that, you know, a child would get like a message online from a stranger. Now it could have. They could have like friends, similar friends or something like that could be somebody in their school or it could be somebody in another country that's just pretending, you know, with an AI account or something like that. But they. The sex portion is going to be where they become friends. They, you know, eventually ask them for a photo.
They'll send even a fake photo first and they'll say, hey, you know, here's a photo for you. Can you send me one now? And after they've warmed them up and because they're. Kids are not strangers. They're not strangers to you. If you talk to them multiple times a day, you know, it Used to be stranger danger. But online they're, they're no longer strangers when we sit there and talk to random people all the time.
So that person, that child's gonna send them a photo and all of a sudden it becomes sextortion in the sense of, now they're saying, oh, well, I'm gonna send this photo to every family member, every person, all your friends, the entire school, your church, whatever that may be, unless you give me either financial, some sort of financial gain or more photos or videos or something like that. With women, with girls, it tends to be they want more material, so they want more photos, they want video, something like that. And it can even get to the point where it becomes, hey, you need to meet me, we're gonna, we're gonna hook up ourselves or I've got somebody I want you to hook up with. And it becomes trafficking at that point with boys. And boys are actually the majority when it comes to sextortion right now. They're probably, I think they're like 70 to 80% is, is males that are being targeted for this, and that's mainly for financial gain where they're being extorted for it. There was a case not too long ago that was local here, and I want to say the boy was only like 12 or 13 years old, but he, within four hours he was talking to a stranger online. He thought it was a girl, she sent him a fake photo and he sent one back. And then like within that four hour period, they said, you know, I want money for this. And he was like, I can't, I don't have $500. I don't know how I'm going to give you money. He said, you know, I don't have any other options. And so they talked him into committing suicide. That's how bad it went. And within four hours he committed suicide. From the, the moment that they started talking to the, the, to the moment of suicide, four hour span of, of all of that conversation. And it turned out to be two boys in another country that I think were in Nigeria or something like that,
[00:38:59] Speaker A: but which means there will be no justice or prosecution, nothing that comes out of that one. Yeah.
So do you think that it's helpful for parents to talk to their kids and say, look, if somebody ever wants a picture of you and you do send one, and then they threaten, come to us, talk to us, you do not need to be embarrassed, we will work it out. Because I think that's the thing, is kids are scared to tell their parents and then they kill Themselves.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what we try to really push as parents, to have this conversation with them while they're on social media doing talking to all these different people and stuff like that is very important to have that conversation. Especially when it also comes to AI photos, too.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Too.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: Because that's happening a lot. Especially even in elementary and middle school now, where they're taking photos of the girls and their classmates and they're putting it on fake nudes, AI wise. And that becomes a problem as well, which is the same thing. I mean, these kids are being charged in middle school with CSAM material. You know, it's a felony charge to have that. Even though it's a fake AI photo, they're still using a depiction of a real person.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: So.
But yes, having parents have that conversation with them. We had two conferences ago, we had an amazing speaker on sextortion. It was a detective out of Montgomery, and she gave an amazing whole, like, process of what to do, how to talk to your children, everything like that. And we had one lady who was attending the conference, and I kid you not, two weeks later, she's like, thank you so much. Because of what you guys taught. I knew how to handle a sextortion situation with my son. Two weeks later, like, it just happened. I didn't have to panic. We handled it accordingly. Everything's fine. But, you know, he had to be brave enough to come to me, but I had to also have that conversation with him.
[00:40:44] Speaker A: The fact that you said it was 70 to 80%, like, it's high for boys. And it's because I think that they think there's more shame in it.
Like, the boys are more scared to go to their parents and be like, I sent a picture to somebody. Especially if it ends up being revealed that you sent it to another man or a boy, and then you're, like, feeling all the shame. And they. They're. Because women are in. Sadly, girls are already so sexualized.
I feel like with boys, it hits even harder, and then they just will kill themselves and stuff. And. And it sucks we have to have these conversations with kids. But I. But it needs to happen. And I think that if you have a child and you're listening to this, you need to make sure you have the conversation so they know that they can come to you and that if they do send a photo, like, you know, obviously you don't want your child to send a photo, but sometimes they're fake photos. Sometimes it's AI and they just take your head and put it on it. And then they still say they're going to release it. And people still kill themselves because of an AI photo. So make sure you talk to your kids and know that like, hey, it's okay for you to come to us and, and talk about this so we can.
Yeah. Take care of the situation.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: Sometimes it's just a bluff too. You can. Sometimes the bluffs are what get the kids and they never actually send them to all their friends and stuff like that. But on that chance they're just not gonna. Yeah, they're not going to take that chance. So. But you can. There's a nickname n cmec.org has an option to work with. It's called take it down. And they will actually help you take off explicit images off the interwebs with. Yeah.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Yep, yep. So that's the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. For anybody that doesn't know what Nick Mick is.
Yeah. So the national center for Missing Exploited Children, they're great. They have a lot of resources and they have the take it down option for sextortion, which I think is a great option. If people have any other questions, what is your website?
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Fortify Alabama.com.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: okay, so we will link your website and your socials and all the things down below.
And if you want to support Fortify Alabama, there are options for volunteer work, there's options for donations, there's options for financial support.
And with them being a nonprofit, that is a tax write off.
So definitely consider when you're thinking about all your taxes and when you need it, when your accountant says spend more money, think about Fortify Alabama.
[00:43:03] Speaker B: Think about Fortify.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: So.
But thank you, Nicole, so much for coming on and talking about trafficking with us. I think it's a very, you know, education is the number one thing we need to do to get a bunch of people out there because I think a lot of people just don't know or they don't want to know. And it is a gross thing, but it is a thing and it's here and it's in our own city and it's everywhere. So you may think it's not in your city, but it is.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. No, we, we can't stay in our bubbles forever.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: No, no, we can't. But I appreciate it so much. Yeah. Well, thank you, Nicole, so much for coming on. So that was Fortify Alabama. And we will see you guys next week. Bye, guys.
[00:43:45] Speaker B: Bye.
[00:43:46] Speaker A: This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances. Contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000 or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go at it alone.
